In this episode of the Counselor Chat Podcast, I sit down with Sarah Altman, a seasoned elementary school counselor with 20 years of experience at Sycamore Elementary in Indiana. Sarah gives us an inspiring and detailed look at what it’s like to manage the daily ups and downs of school counseling while building meaningful relationships with students, staff, and families.
From her creative lesson plans to balancing unexpected challenges, Sarah shares practical strategies, tips, and wisdom that every school counselor—no matter their experience level—can learn from.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- Behind the Scenes of Elementary School Counseling
- Sarah takes us through a “typical” day in her role, showing how she balances proactive planning with the unexpected.
- Creative Lesson Ideas for K-4 Students
- Sarah’s go-to lessons include fun, hands-on activities with “little spot” books, growth mindset escape rooms, and even using a colander to teach social filters!
- The Value of Longevity
- Learn how staying at the same school for 20 years has helped Sarah connect deeply with her school community.
- Proactive Programs That Work
- Discover Sarah’s unique peer mentoring program and how she integrates social and academic skills into everyday interactions.
- Career Readiness for Elementary Students
- Sarah’s innovative approach to career development includes resume writing, mock interviews, and job exploration tailored for fourth graders.
- Balancing Duties and Grace
- From morning drop-off to lunch duty, Sarah explains how counselors can use these moments to connect with students and identify areas of need.
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Transcript
Carol: You're listening to the Counselor Chat podcast, a show for school counselors looking for easy to implement strategies, how to tips, collaboration and a little spark of joy. I'm Carol Miller, your host.
I'm a full time school counselor and the face behind counseling Essentials. I'm all about creating simplified systems, data driven practices, and using creative approaches to engage students. If you're looking for a little inspiration to help you make a big impact on student growth and success, your you're in the right place because we're better together.
Ready to chat. Let's dive in.
Hi everyone, it's Carol here. Welcome back to another episode of Counselor Chat. I am so glad that you are here with us today and we have a special treat. We have a interview today with Sarah Altman.
And actually I'm just going to let Sarah just take over. So she's going to tell you all about who she is, what she does and all the things. So welcome Sarah.
Sarah: Sounds good. Thanks, Carol. So I am Sarah Altman. I'm in my 20th year as an elementary school counselor, all at the same school, Sycamore Elementary School in Avon here in Indiana.
It's about, I don't know, 15 minutes west of Indianapolis. I live in Brownsburg, which is just north of Avon with my husband and our two children. They're 18 and 16.
I'm really excited. My daughter just got into college and my son is 16 years old and is 5 inches taller than me at this point. So it's pretty crazy. So yeah, I've been an elementary school counselor all at Sycamore my entire career after graduating from Purdue in 2005.
And during those 20 years I've served under several principals, assistant principals have had a smattering of teachers. I think at this point I am fifth in terms of the longest at the school, a couple other teachers ahead of me and one of our secretaries ahead of me.
So I definitely feel like I'm a veteran and I feel like that's beneficial to be at a school for a long time to get to know the families and of course the staff and then just the whole school community.
I think it's really beneficial. In my spare time, I also teach a couple of graduate level school counseling classes. I teach at Marion University and their school counseling program. Some like practicum, internship classes and then a couple of other school counseling classes as well as Indiana Wesleyan University.
And I teach practicum there to school counseling students. I feel like I am a better practitioner because I also teach people to do my job. A big thing that we talk about is how important it is for them to learn kind of those day to day things as a school counselor.
And I often say to them this is the class that I wish I would have had in grad school because there are so many things as a school counselor that you don't learn in grad school or in a textbook or whatever.
So much of it is just the actual experiences we have and the ability to process through those experiences and find out what different schools and what different corporations do to for the process or what does it look like or how do we handle certain situations.
So I feel like with a lot of background in that, also serving on our state board, I was president and have been on the board, it's been a couple years, kind of served in various roles there also.
I have presented at our state association as well as American School Counselor association conferences and had the privilege of going to Washington D.C. a few years ago for the school counselor of the Year as a semifinalist for Ask Us.
So I feel like there's so much more to school counseling than just the Monday through Friday for me, like 7:40 to 3:30 kind of a schedule. It goes so much more beyond that.
So I guess kind of a typical day. I think that's kind of funny. I always say typical day or what's my schedule kind of in quotes, right. A few years ago my principal before this one said to me one of his first days, like hey Sarah, you know, can we sit down and you know, can you tell me what, what you do or like what your schedule is?
And I just laughed and I'm like, well you know, there's definitely things that I plan, there's definitely things that I have in place, kind of those proactive things. But inevitably things come up or things have to change or whatever, um, just due to circumstances for school.
So I guess I'll just use a day like today. So today is a Tuesday.
This morning I had a meeting before school with we call it like our intensive team through mtss, kind of our tier three level team, we were focusing more on students today about academics.
However, I was able to contribute to both of them, which was really cool. Sometimes I sit in there and like a lot of school counselors, like what do I, what can I contribute if it's academics?
But for the first student, it was discussed that she had failed her vision screening. So as a school counselor, one of my roles is to be aware of community organizations and what can we do to support families maybe who have financial needs.
Then I said, hey teacher, when you call the mom if it's a financial need, please let her know that we will be able to get that those funded or at least attempt to get those funded.
That was something that I could contribute as the school counselor and then with the other student, he has been refer to a couple of my like executive functioning kind of school skills groups in the past and is in one right now.
So I was able to contribute. Here are some of the topics that we have done. Both of them, you know, don't have any, you know, like social needs. You know, they're, they're kind students, you know, they're motivated, eager to learn, kind of a student, but just kind of different needs there.
So that was how I started the beginning of my day. Every day I also have four duties. I have car rider duty in the morning and in the afternoon. So that's probably about 15 minutes in the morning and about 15 minutes in the afternoon.
Plus I have a 30 minute kindergarten lunch duty every day. So about an hour of my day is a duty. I know that a lot of counselors not necessarily push back but don't like having duties.
And I hear that right. I. There are definitely times that I wish I didn't. However, I always say, well, it's all fair share, right? I mean our administrators, everyone has a dv, so that's going to be part of it.
So how can I as a counselor use that to my advantage? So especially during that drop off in the morning, it's a great way to connect really quickly with, with a parent or definitely even with a student.
We have, I do a program at my school, it's called peer mentors. Our oldest kids are fourth grade. Fourth graders are nominated by their teachers to serve as a peer mentor, which means that they can be connected with a littler kid or a littler kid class depending on the needs of the school.
And they can work with them in a variety of ways. So every morning then these fourth graders go down to wherever this little kid class is and they might read a social story, they might do reading flashcards, they might take them on like a little break, whatever it is, but they connect.
So in the morning what's been great is because I was in that the before school drop off duty. One of our little friends in first grade struggles with keeping his hands to himself.
He was needing an adult to walk him in every day because he was struggling just even getting into the classroom. So I figured out, oh hey. One of our peer mentors is also a drop off every day they wait for each other so this kindergarten or this first grader and this fourth grader, they wait for each other, they walk hand in hand, it's very cute.
And the fourth grader walks him down to his classroom, helps him get a stuff together. They do have a little social story that they read. He helps them get everything ready to go to kind of go and sit in his space right in the classroom.
So then there's really no wiggle room for this boy to be able to put his hands on kids because he's occupied really. And it's a win win. So having that duty really helped me to see, oh look, there are needs that I can help to serve during that time.
Similar, I guess during lunch duty. I've only ever had kindergarten lunch duty, which is helpful because I run all of my small groups during lunchtime just for ease of not missing any academic time.
So knowing that kindergartners, it's very difficult to eat and have a small group at the same time. I would say let me do kindergarten lunch so then I can have the other four grades to do lunch duty or to have to have lunch groups.
So again, having kindergarten lunch duty, it's a great opportunity. I get to know every kid's name in kindergarten probably by Labor Day. We start school in July. So it's a little different here.
And we have a balanced calendar. So I get to know all the kids names. And one of my favorite things that I'll probably talk about is I go visit every kinder classroom every week.
I get to know the kids there too. But what's nice then is whatever I do during my lessons in the classroom, it's kind of like transferring of learning into like what I say, like their natural habitat of beyond that classroom.
But in the real world, which is only the kindergarten or the cafeteria, but still. So when I'm teaching them about, I do like a red green kind of a thing.
So we talk about making green light choices in the classroom, in the cafeteria. Sometimes they'll say to me, Mrs. Altman, they made a red light choice because they put their hands on me or whatever.
Right Again, it's just that transferring of knowledge from one environment to the other. So I really like to be able to make those connections with the kindergarteners, have them get to know me.
And we can also integrate some of that learning that way. And then at the end of the day kind of the same thing. So. So I had the meeting, I had my drop off duty and then today was a little different because I serve as a public agency rep for special education Conferences, typically they are the speech and language only ones.
And my administrators do the other conferences. However, they both were in a meeting. They'd asked me if I could cover initial eligibility conference. So I did. And fortunately it's also a student I work with.
So that was really helpful to have that opportunity to meet with the student's parent, of course the teacher and you know, everybody who is involved with that. I do work with a student in a small group as well.
I've gotten parent permission to do that. So again I could take my role as a school counselor and share, share the feedback that I have those observations that I have from this student.
And I was able to share that during the conference.
So then that happened again. That's pretty atypical for a Tuesday.
And then after that then I had four lunch groups back to back to back to back after my lunch duty. First grade, second grade, four, we have fourth grade, then third grade.
And then I had my kindergarten time which I had mentioned, I'll share a little bit about. So then right there is like two and a half straight hours of the four groups that.
And then I ended my day with two back to back fourth grade classroom lessons. And then it was the end of the day. Right. So I think I had about a 20 minute window between 10 something and 10 something somewhere in there.
I was able to squeeze in a little girl that I check in with every few weeks. So kind of take that as a full gamut. I mean it was most of my day was pre planned with everything and then as little things can kind of to go in there.
The groups that I'm running currently are mainly focused on two topics, one of which is kind of more of those social skills. So for example, my first grade girls group, I have five students in it who were referred from their teachers and that's typically how I do it or parents.
Sometimes the older kids will self refer which is really great. So that's, that's nice. Or if they've been in groups in the past and they're like Mrs. Altman, I want to eat lunch with you again.
Okay, you know, we'll figure it out.
So with my first grade social skills group today, I had found a little holiday kind of activity where we talked about different feelings as we were integrating the concepts of feelings and the body cues and the expression and role playing times and sharing ideas and listening skills.
All those things all together that then it really helps those girls not only communicate their feelings, but also listening to others and all those core skills that I feel like we can do.
Anytime we do anything right is we focus in on. I always think like kind of five core skills that we do a lot. So finding those resources sometimes can be tricky.
But I feel like at this point in my career I've. I've been able to find. Take almost anything and kind of make it what it needs to be. I'm very blessed to have a pretty big office and I have a big screen TV in there.
I can connect my computer. So I do like to utilize that as much as I can. If my curriculum's online or even videos.
My girls group has been doing a lot of the little spot books and videos. I do that with a lot of kids anyway. So we're able to find feelings videos that can connect with that.
So we did that. Of course the girls want to get up and dance. And will you share this with my parents? Sure. That kind of thing. My next group was a second grade group and that's a mixture of boys and girls.
Social skills group as well. And they opted to do a holiday kind of lesson about following directions. Again, it's helping them socially to make those connections or to take turns.
What I love about doing groups, not all my groups have this, but some of them do, mainly the younger kid ones is I have a bucket of little plastic tokens and that's kind of my little economy to help that with that behavior reinforcement with that group.
After the kids have set the group values at the beginning of our group time, this is I think like our fourth or fifth week of group group. So I mean we're in it at this point.
Then they know how to earn it for that group specifically. It's like asking each other questions. Right. Because that's part of what they struggle with as they're doing their activity.
They're asking questions or they're encouraging or like, hey, here, can I help you with that? And it's like, oh, thank you for. Right then just reinforcing those social skills values as they're doing an activities kind of that teachable moment right away.
So that was really helpful. My fourth grade group was a group of girls and they. We were doing kind of like some school skill stuff. I found some resources online about like executive functioning.
So I've created like a little packet for the kids which has different topics based on their needs. And today we talked a lot about focusing. In the past we talked about choices and consequences, which is a very developmentally appropriate topic for this age.
We talked about if I make this choice, then what could be the consequence. So connecting all of these skills back to kind of that idea and rooting it in our school values.
One of which is to. To follow the group plan. That that's kind of our verbiage really what that means is following directions in a way and kind of like what's expected in that moment.
So tying everything I do kind of back to that. It's really helpful. The girls again kind of went through and did some activities as they could while they're still eating.
And then third grade as a group of only boys, we did again school skills kinds of things where we brought up different topics. Some of my online activities allow them for that kinesthetic movement which is great even though it's during lunchtime.
So they're mainly focused on eating.
I feel like that group needs more of the structured activities, I guess in the sense of okay, now we're going to do this. Here's the question. What did I say to do?
And kind of helping them like really figure out how am I paying attention. Knowing in the big classroom with 25 kids that's very hard to do. The teacher can't go back and like directly ask them every single time or how can they work with each other?
Or one of the boys kind of made a comment to another boy. It was interesting because the other boy had this reaction. Well, in a small group of four kids I'm able to say whoa, let's stop and let's process that.
All of these or most of the kids I should say have been in a group. But they all know me, right? They just know who I am. So I don't get that sense that they're I guess embarrassed or shocked or anything by anything we do in there.
They appear to feel pretty comfortable. So after those four groups, like I said, then I did my kindergarten time and then I had two lessons back to back with fourth grade.
And as a district, the K4 counselors, we come up with a scope and sequence throughout the year. In November is growth mindset. I was able to find a really cool escape room online am the kids were put in groups and we processed a little bit ahead of time about that.
What they remembered from the past that I've taught them. And then they did an escape room with. With each group in that 30 minute time. It's a lot that they can accomplish.
Fortunately all my classes escaped today. That doesn't always happen, but so that's really fun. And then kind of debriefing it at the, at the end time and then yeah, then the end of the day.
So that. That's kind of a, I would say, typical day without too many interruptions. Interruptions could be. I have a radio on me all the time, along with quite a few of our staff who are not in classrooms all day.
So if the radio goes off for a behavior need. I've had many days where things are interrupted. Like planned things, I guess, are interrupted due to needing just a kid needs to be removed or I have to push into a classroom and just kind of sit with them for a little bit or a crisis, right.
If they call and they're like, hey, Mrs. Altman, we need you down here. And then I end up the rest of the day spending the time with a kid doing a screener and contacting parents and making plans and all those things kind of come together.
But today I didn't have, knock on wood, any of those reactive things. It was definitely a lot of those proactive things, which is pretty rare. But it feels good, I think, to feel like, okay, this is what I've planned to do, and this is actually what happened.
So speaking of kindergarten, this is definitely one of my highlights. So several years ago, I don't even. I can't even tell you when it's probably been. At least eight years ago, I was asked to kind of be part of a group with, like, all of our related arts teachers.
I'm not in the related arts schedule, but for some reason that year they were like, hey, can you come in and provide something? So we kind of worked it out that year as kind of a hit and miss thing.
And then the teachers were like, well, Sarah, like, can we just do. Could you come every week? And then you could also have your piece? Well, now it's really led to.
And then Covid. So then it led to me going into each individual classroom because I didn't want to be in a gym full of a hundred kids, right? So then.
So then we went into each individual classroom. Well, now it's stuck that way because I 100% prefer that over a group of all hundreds. So starting probably, I don't know, four weeks into school until the end of the school year, every week I visit each of my kindergarten classes.
And what's nice is that those teachers have all been in kindergarten for several years, so they kind of know the plan. So every Monday is one teacher, every Tuesday, right?
So then they know, and then the kids know. So during that time, I set aside about 20 ish, 25 minutes to do whatever my counselor lesson is for the week.
I have created a schedule on my shared drive with My teachers, so they know what I'm doing. If I need links shared, like, for a video or any of my online curriculum, they have access to all of that, you know, just right there that I upload.
So then they can share it directly on their screen, which is really great. Or I might just have, like, today or this week, I have a book. So when I get started with the kids, of course, they only know me as the lady in the cafeteria.
Then they get to know me right as now I'm coming into their classroom. So it's kind of cool to see that. That progression. So I start the year with that stoplight, helping the kids.
And we do the red, yellow, green, and then they get a color, their own and that kind of thing. But I do definitely have some procedures that I do with the kids.
And it's fun at this point of the year that they know them. So typically, you know, they start on the floor. The teacher will stay in the. In the room.
Sometimes I have almost all female teachers, so a lot of times she will sit on the floor with them. Sometimes she's just at her desk, whatever needs to happen. But so they'll come to the floor.
And then if I have a friend, which is like a stuffed animal of sorts or a puppet, that kind of a thing, I'll have it in my little yellow bag.
Well, this week, because of Halloween, I'm doing Spookly, the square pumpkin. Of course, I had to buy the square pumpkin stuffed animal, because. Right. So inside my bag, he's in there.
And we just got done doing some social thinking curriculum, which was that it used to be called incredible flexible you, but now I. We thinkers. I think they've kind of changed the name, But I bought puppets that matched all the characters in the book.
So the kids are like, Mrs. Ullman, do you have our puppet friends? I said, oh, remember we last time was our last time with them. Now we have a new friend.
And they're like, who is it? Right. Kind of that. That intrigue, that curiosity. Because developmentally, for them to be able to visually see something and tactically feel it, it's helpful.
I invited one of the kids up, and she got a hold. Spookly. Ironically, she was also wearing a pumpkin shirt. So it kind of worked out.
At our school, we do within our language arts curriculum, they talk about, like, notice and wonder. I've utilized that a lot within my discussion. So I'll say, for example, like, well, what do you notice about Spookly?
And the kids know that verbiage because they're taught that in the academic world. So then we, you know, integrate that. Like, he's square, he's orange, and he's got a face, and his.
The leaves are his hands. All the things. So then as I'm reading the book, another thing I like to do is some of my friends talk. So I'll be like, if they talk to you, let me know.
Not only do I have little Spookly or puppets, but I have, like, a stuffed animal brain and a stuffed animal heart that I do this big, like, hand. I mean, all the things.
And most of them, if they have a mouth on them, they talk. Now, it's funny, in the beginning of the kids are like, what? But now sometimes kids will say, Mrs.
Ahmed, they're talking. And it'll be like a compliment. Like, well, Spookly told me he liked my shirt, and I'm like, oh, what? So just kind of that creativity, which is a lot of fun.
So then they kind of expect that. And then as we're reading, of course, we'll pause and talk about it or make a connection or make a prediction, whatever it is.
We do a lot of what we call turn and talk. For example, today with Spookly, and I'm looking like this because I'm thinking how I was sitting. So I apologize, but it's like, oh, spook.
He. They tease Spookly because of his shape or whatever. And I said, oh, tease. Wow. Look how he's feeling and asking those feelings questions within it. And then I'll say, okay, we'll turn and talk about what you think you would do if you were a pumpkin in the patch, right?
And then they have that chance to share because they all want to share all the things. And if I said, well, then I'd be, you know, waiting there for a while.
But if they turn and talk, and that, again, is a skill that they do kind of in that academic setting. So that's a common thing. And then when we get done, we.
I almost always have like, a worksheet or something that they're gonna make a small craft to then take home. Then I have this little song, I guess, where I teach them at the beginning of the year that when they go back, like, what supplies do they need?
Oh, then they repeat after me. Well, now they know it. So as they. When they go to stand up, they say, okay, pencil and crayons. Pencil. And I mean, you just hear all the kids just.
They just say it over and over and over because that's what we've taught them. Or someday Sometimes we just need pencil, crayons, scissors and glue. So then we have to like add in the little jingle, right?
So kind of that idea of making things a song for them and the kids remember. And sometimes even my bigger kids will still say that even though we don't need to.
Carol: As.
Sarah: As they get a little bit older, especially first grade, they do, but then they know, right. This is what we do. And then they go back to their seat and then I have like a little song for writing their name on their paper.
Like, please write your name on the top, please. And then they're all singing that too, right? Again, kind of integrating those procedures. And then complete their activity. And then whatever, if they need to take it home, whatever they do, whatever, whatever their class does.
And then when I leave, I've have taught them to do like a silent. We do levels of voice. So like a level zero voice where we just wave and then do like a sign language.
Thank you. Teaching the kids that at the beginning of the year. So then when I leave, it's not like, wow, but it's. Everyone is quiet at least. Oftentimes back at their seat or on the carpet again or doing whatever they need to do next.
And just that little quiet time. And then I just leave their classroom at that time. So that's. That was today. And then I came home and took a nap because I'm tired.
Because not only do we just come back from fall break, but also it's go, go, go all day. So again, that. That was today. If you ask me from before fall break for a day, it might look very different.
However, I always have kindergarten, right? And then I typically have one, if not more classroom lessons. There are some days I might have four grade level lessons, plus kindergarten lessons, plus my three or four small groups.
So that's most of my day, right? Is just doing that. So that's when I. I'm like, okay, please no reactive things, right? Because then I'll have to. To reschedule. Which is fine.
I mean, all the teachers understand the student. My small groups, I'll just say, hey guys, as you know, we're scheduled for this day. But right. There are 540 kids and there's five of you and there's only one of me.
And a girl today said, well, can't they just clone you? I was like, well, I'd love to have an assistant or five. But they understand that, like, hey, if I'm called, then I have to go.
And we can't make it up because I don't have Any extra days? Right. We'll just have to wait till next week. So that's, I guess, a pretty typical ish day, depending on the time of the year.
Of course, there are times of the year where we're spending two weeks doing our body safety kind of lessons or we're doing. I'm helping to proctor assessments. If it's our state testing, if it's district kind of testing that they might need me to pull a small group to do, of course, then that affects what I'm able to do, able to get in the classrooms or not able to whatever it is that I need to do.
I also spent time today, I coordinate the holiday help for my school. All of us in the district, all the counselors do that. I spent time today contacting parents just on our computer portal, like our parent portal, after teachers referred a family or two to me, reached out that way.
I'm trying to think if that was the biggest, like, other thing. I guess that, yeah, that holiday help because again, I didn't have much other time to reply to emails and whatnot.
So anyway, that, that was kind of my day in general.
Carol: Okay, so you have 500 kids.
Sarah: Is. Yeah.
Carol: Itch is okay.
Sarah: Okay.
Carol: And for our counselors that are listening, how often do you actually do classroom lessons?
Sarah: Yeah, so kindergarten's every week. First grade I do twice a month. And second, third and fourth grade I do monthly.
Carol: Okay.
Sarah: Yeah, so first grade, it was always every month until this school year. Our first grade has been a bit of a challenge this year, even in years past. We've had kind of some little discussions and then this year I said to them, I'm like, hey, if you guys would be okay with that, I would love to do more of a bi weekly rotation, kind of like what I do with kindergarten.
Again, just to give them more of that, that social, the social time, the emotional time. So I have now planned that. I told the kids, I'm like, okay. It's like I'm like an AB pattern.
A week A, I'm here. Week B, I'm not. Right. So this week is a B. And then next week will be an A where I'll be coming back. One thing I don't think I shared about with my lessons is that I at the beginning of the year have portfolios, which is basically manila folders for all the kids in my school.
And not for kindergarten, I don't, I don't do them. But for all the other grades that I have, just the manila folders that I give to the kids during my first lesson, and they write their name on the outside, maybe draw a picture, and we call it their portfolios.
So every time I come in, we pass out their portfolio. The portfolios and whatever activity, paper, activity we do, we put in there. And then I take them back. Then every time I go in, we add to it.
And then at the end of this school year, then they get a take it home. It's. That's a really cool thing. I started this many years ago. I don't even know, 15, maybe years ago.
My treasure, every year just buys those. It's really. It's fun now going in even more often with first grade because they're getting a little thick most of the time. It's a worksheet of some sort for third grade.
I think I might even have one tomorrow. I have like an 11 by 17 paper, you know, of activities and, you know, folding it in half. And then it. Now it's double, right for what they need to do.
But it just provides a little bit of, you know, just that, the ownership to like, oh, look at all the work that I have done. And maybe selfishly, I kind of like having kids take home the stuff they do during my time with them.
All at once. Right. As a parent, I know, you know, we get so many papers. Well, well, I used to, as you probably did too, so many papers all the time.
But to then have something where it's like, oh, look, here's kind of a whole folder of all of these things. They can do with it whatever they want. I don't really care.
But it just. It's neat for them to feel like, oh, look at all this that I've done to be able to take home. So that's been. Then I just store them by class in a bigger portfolio.
And I just have like some drawers in my room and just bring them back and forth. Um, it's really not that bad. I've got 25 classes total, so 20 sets of portfolios with the.
Not kindergarten.
And then, you know, it. Whatever we do, we just put it in there. And then they, you know, keep it, keep it for later at the end of the year.
So, like, during our May lessons, I do transition lessons. Teachers will nominate two kids. Boy, girl, both. It doesn't really matter to represent their class to go with me to visit a younger kid's classroom.
So, like, for example, two third grade students will go with me to visit second grade to tell them all about what third grade is. So I've done this now for many years.
It's really Cool. I try to partner, like if a second grade teacher had, you know, one of the third graders, I have them go back so then they're able to share what the differences were going from one to the other.
I have a whole list of questions that I send home with the kids that they can kind of practice. And I always say all these answers. I'm not going to ask you anything that's like this horrible math problem that you're not going to get.
No, no. It's just like, oh, well, when, when you are getting ready at the end of the day, tell them about your procedures or tell them what your teacher does when they're.
Whatever it is. So that's really fun. And then that's when they can take home their portfolios because that's kind of that culminating event at the end and then they take them home.
Carol: I love that. That's really nice.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.
Carol: Okay. Do you have a favorite lesson?
Sarah: Yeah. So, gosh, I mean, so much, so many of them I've probably taken from other people, either from teachers, pay teachers, Google, Facebook groups I'm part of. Right. I mean, just people like that.
So I'm trying to think of ones that are my favorite, favorite. I mean, I think a lot of my kindergarten ones I really, really like. I'd say one of my.
One of my favorites I'll kind of do by grade level, if that's okay. So in kindergarten, I love the little spot books. The little spot books I do kind of later in the.
That's just how my calendar has kind of worked. Including, I think I do like four or five weeks worth of little spot books. And of course I have to have the little spots right.
And I have some of the bigger ones and the T shirts to match and all the things. Then I bring that in. But I also bring in a matching color balloon.
So if we're talking about the love spot, which is one of my favorites, I find a pink balloon. And as we talk about it, I blow up the balloon to show like when your spot's getting bigger and then what people do to make it smaller kind of a thing.
So. So either that or probably in kindergarten, some of my favorite lessons are using the website Wonder Grove. Wondergrovelearn. I think.net is the actual website, but I know they're on YouTube, some free videos, but I buy the annual membership for that because they're like two to four minute social videos that the kids really like.
And they come with activity sheets and they come with all the things that are really helpful. After I'VE taught them a lot of these social skills. And that kind of is a way to.
Again, okay, you know, we've learned the skill of listening now as we're watching this video, you know, what are the kids on the screen doing to listen? What should they do next?
You know, kind of a thing. So those are two of my. Probably my favorite in kindergarten. Gosh, in first grade. I still use little spot books a lot in first grade, maybe just a little bit.
Like I'm doing a little spot learns kind words. So again, a little bit higher up than just the feelings. But one of my favorite activities in first grade is about a social filter.
I bring in my silver colander from home and a clear plastic or clear glass bowl. And then I have a pitcher of water. And then I have like, I don't know, like little bingo chips or something to kind of represent the.
The yucky thoughts or whatever.
It's almost like a little science project. So of course the kids love it, right? So we, before I even talk about the actual social, emotional side of it, we just do our science project, right?
We. And I say, okay, if I dump these in, what's going to happen? Let's make a prediction, blah, blah, blah. And then I do this. Then what's going to happen?
And prevented it from coming out, all that kind of thing. Then I found this really cool PowerPoint activity I do with the kids where then we talk about the things we need to keep inside of our thought bubble.
So kind of that think it and the say it. So again, having those visual aids for the kids is huge. I feel like I have either a PowerPoint, a book or a video for every single one of my lessons.
I mean, even up through fourth grade, right? Again, I don't just want to stand up in front with when there's nothing, right? I mean, who likes that? Even as an adult, right?
Nobody's. So I feel like there's definitely more of that interactive ness, I guess, you know, with those younger. Those younger kids. So doing that one, most recently, I did one about fairness.
So I, you know, got band aids. And we talked about how not every kid needs a bandaid, right? If things don't happen. So again, having different things that they don't expect me to bring in, like a band aid or a hula hoop or something to kind of explain like personal space or whatever, right?
Then that's, that's, that's really helpful in second grade.
Oh, gosh, I don't know. Kind of a variety. I'd say there's some Book series by Mary Nin. They're the Ninja Life Hacks books. We have purchased a lot of them in my district.
I use them a lot. For example, for Growth Mindset, there's a Growth Mindset Ninja book. I have created my own worksheet and my own activity that I'm going to be using with it.
I do try to integrate some academic skills as much as I can. I know it's not necessary or required, but I feel like it's helpful. So I have, like, two, like, reading comprehension kind of questions that we do again, as a group on their worksheet and then kind of go on from there.
I do try to integrate as much writing as I can. I feel like that that's helpful. I know that the writing is really pushed a lot, even at the younger grade, so having them write a sentence, even if there's a sentence starter kind of a thing.
And then for this activity, then I also was able to find like a little, like, growth mindset, kind of a coding worksheet or activity. Right? Like, you have to find the code that goes here and there and everywhere with a little ninja on it.
So the kids at this age really, really like that. It's helpful for them, again, to see it and then talk through it. I do something a lot during my lessons and even in my.
My groups where I say, okay, welcome to the stage, also known as this spot right here in the classroom. And then the kid can come up and do whatever it is.
So maybe for the growth mindset one in second grade, I might just say, okay, if you want to come up to the stage, raise your hand and I invite somebody to the stage, and I'll just say, okay, now imagine that you are a character in the book.
Show us what? Right. So again, it's kind of role playing, but it's in a way that it's just a little different, kind of more creative, I guess. Instead of just saying, oh, we'll come up and do this, you know, it's more like welcome to the stage kind of a thing.
So kids really enjoy doing that. And I think, again, that procedure, that routine that kids know, those are definitely some of my favorite ones. I always do. Again, in our district, we do lessons about our brain and the neuroscience kind of stuff.
With my stuffed animal brain, I've got stuffed animal neurons, which are really helpful with second grade. One of my favorites also was I have a whole video about neurons. We talk about the neurons and they get to draw the neurons, and we talk about that, making those connections and all the things.
So having those visuals to be able to look at it and actually like touch my neurons and we talk about how big these are compared to the real ones and that kind of thing.
So they definitely do more kind of sitting at their seat doing things compared to my K and 1 kids. Again, naturally, that's what they do. Just in the academic. Are there times where they might be in like little station groups?
During my lessons? Sometimes, but not as often with only that, that 30 minute time.
Third grade. Oh, goodness. I have a lot.
Probably one of my favorites is something I created. Ooh, many years ago. I think I've presented on this at conferences and stuff. But when I talk about goal setting with kids, because I feel like that that's pretty important, especially at this third grade age when there's more of the testing and the independence and all that.
The work I created, it's just a worksheet we go through and the kids identify a short term goal. So we talk about. So I always say, like, my short term goal every week is to put away my laundry.
Like that's literally my short term goal every week that I'm like, by the end of the week, I will boom, boom, boom. So then having kids identify their own. I tell them, make sure you have a verb, right?
Fold my laundry or whatever it is. And I say to them, I say, even if your goal is to beat a video game level, that's still a goal, right? They're still learning the process of, of setting a goal.
What does that mean? So let's say, for example, a kid said that he wants to finish his book. Great, right? Then they all identify their own goal. I do mine up on the, in the front, like on a big chart paper.
Then they can see that it's helpful, right, for that modeling. And then on the worksheet, so the kids kind of on the top, and then there's like a little path to the goal.
And along the path there are four things. Two of them are X's and two of them are an X stands for an obstacle. We talk about what obstacles are. So I might say something like, okay, well, my goal is to fold my laundry, but what happens if I'm sick?
That would really prevent me from meeting my goal. So I'm next to my ex, I'm gonna write, I'm sick. So then all the kids think about, well, what could prevent them from achieving their goal.
So like in the case of the Boise wanting to finish his chapter book, maybe, you know, he, you know, goes on a trip and forgets it at home. Well yeah, then he can't, right?
So again, kind of thinking through, some of the kids will say, you know, beating a level in a video game. And they say, well what if the power goes out?
Mrs. Altman, you're right. That would prevent you from. Right. So again, even if it's not school related or whatever, like it's just the idea of them meet, understanding. Then they go along the path and then first one is the first O is kind of like the external supporter.
With third grade I also talk a lot about like an inner coach and an inner critic within that growth mindset. The, the O is going to be like their outer coach.
So who's somebody outside of them who can support them and encourage them. So just in general support systems. So then I go back to mine. I say well, I need to fold my clothes.
Well if my son says hey, I'll help you fold them. Ding, ding, ding. That's great, right? Then I would write my son. So then I have them think, well who can help you achieve your goal?
Then they write down their the name, whatever it is. And then here we go, here's another X. Then they have to think of another X. Often say well, I really just want to watch tv.
It's all right T on mine again. Then they do the same and then the last O is more of that internal O. So like as an inner coach, what can you do to help yourself achieve the goal?
So sometimes kids will say well I'll get my other stuff done so I have time to play my video games, right? Or I'll say to myself, okay, just do it right.
Kind of that positive self talk. Awesome. Maybe they say like well, if I meet my goal then I can, you know, get a piece of candy. Right. So again just having them think of not only that external but also that internal person, the internal voice that they have to help them.
So that's. I really, really like doing that one especially because it's all me. Like I didn't buy that anywhere. It's all me. So I feel kind of proud that this is something that, that the kids really like.
And again then they just add that to their portfolio.
Fourth grade a lot for many years. And I do my best again kind of the career stuff. I actually was a co writer ish with Julia Cook on one of her books that her career one with the shoes, what shoes you wear or whatever it is.
I think on the activity book. We met up. She came to Indiana many years ago. Anyway shared some ideas but I had done a year Long. All my lessons in fourth grade for a couple years were all career.
I was like, okay, we do like the interest inventories. And we do. We wrote a resume, we made a job description. We developed a business card. We practiced interviewing for a job.
We watched videos about people interviewing. And then at the end of the year then they had. Or I had people like in the school community. So even like HR people.
Some of our, like our superintendent came over sometimes some of our teachers. And then lately it's been. And parents who are off that they'll come in and the kids actually can dress up if they can, for the job.
And then they take their portfolio of things to this interview. I give them a little rubric. And of course, I give the adult a rubric too. Of here are eight things that we want them to do.
If they do at least six of eight, then they get hired. Right? And the interviewer checks off. This is they introduce themselves. Yes, they did. They told me what job they wanted.
Yes, they did. Why they wanted the job. Right. So kind of some basic things. Things. And that's really cool because you can really see the kids, that feeling of anxiety before they go in for an interview.
A lot of kids are, I'm so nervous. And I'm like, that's what it's like. You do really feel nervous. And I said, you know, it's all about persuasion. Right. You want to tell them all these great things about you and so on and so forth.
So that. That's always definitely a highlight. With kind of our change in scope of sequence. I was unable to do the actual interviews last year, but I still definitely integrate the interest inventory and the resume and business card minimum.
Because again, I feel like that those things are important just to kind of look at the. All the career stuff. We don't have what you have in New York in terms of those specific requirements.
However, there's still definitely things that I can hit. But that by far is another one of my highlights. It was when I'm able to kind of to do that. What's nice about that lesson too, is as kids are not interviewing, so either they're not.
Not going yet or they've already finished. Is that in the past, in fifth grade, they would go to a new school and they would have lockers. I had bought locks for them to practice.
So then kids could practice opening locks. Well, that's kind of frustrating. Okay. Right. And also then they could write a letter to their future self. So I would send it to them in fifth grade.
To the fifth grade counselor. And then he or she would just do their best to get them to the kids. And then also a letter to their favorite elementary person.
So if it's somebody at our school, so it's kind of more of that reflection about what they've appreciated about who this person is, but also then kind of a note of like what they're looking forward to the next year.
So even if I don't do the interviews, I still do the locks, that kind of thing. Next year, our district is moving to K5 and then 6, 8. So this year for fourth grade at the end of the year, I won't have to do that because they'll be coming back for fifth grade.
So I'm like, oh, I'm going to have to find something new. But so starting next year, fifth graders, then we'll do that activity knowing that then they'll be moving on to.
To a new school. So those are kind of my favorites. Going into classrooms is, I would say, my number one favorite thing to do. I started out in education as a freshman in college, and probably by spring break, I changed my mind.
And I'm like, I don't really want to be a teacher, but I still feel like I can be. Right. It's just in a different way. I love getting in front of the kids and leading an activity.
Probably some of the harder things are the things that are not dealing with kids as making those parent phone calls or meeting with principals about things or some of those, like little policy if it's with a 504 or testing accommodations.
Right. Things like that. That again, you don't really learn. And for counseling, they're all just like the school things that you just have to have to figure out.
And I always tell my classes that, like, like my graduate classes, I'm like, yeah, 20 years in and I still have firsts. Right. Like, stuff like that, that I'm like, ooh, I don't.
That's a really good question. I don't know. Like, I had my first last year student who went to inpatient for mental health. I've never had that before. That was a first for me.
I had my first student diagnosed with cancer last year who is still in our building. We had some who had moved on, you know, to the upper grades. So that was new again.
I was in year 19. Right. You know, those things are new. Of course, I was a mess. And he's now. He just came back to school yesterday. Oh, it's so exciting.
But. But yeah, all those things. But thing I was thinking about, like, with the whole school thing, I always tell my students, too, that I feel like school counseling, like, 80% of it is school.
Maybe 20% is counseling. If you want to do counseling, don't do school counseling. That's not what it is. Right. Like, counseling counseling is like mental health counseling or whatever. But so much of ours is within the school system.
Right. I mean, that. I'm preaching to the choir here, but you get it. Like, if you're really wanting to know and, like, integrate theory and do, maybe this is not.
Now. Can you utilize a lot of those strategies? A million percent, yes. Right. But in terms of actually providing that structured, actual counseling and all the things.
It's definitely not what I thought it would be. It's definitely more of understanding the school as a system and being part of the different teams that I'm a part of and what can I do here?
And there is. But those are the things that I feel like, as a practitioner, I should be teaching to incoming students is all those things that you don't learn about, like, do you know how to make a DCS report?
Have you ever done a suicide screener? Do you even know how to get trained on that? Do you know about the Indiana laws we have for body safety and bullying and all the things like that?
That they're like, oh, I didn't even know that. By December 15th of every year, every kid in grades K through 12 have to have a lesson on body safety and child abuse.
Child sexual abuse. It's like, oh, okay, well, let me ask my district. What do you. Right. I mean, but again, those are just things that we have to learn. We have to find out.
I feel like that that's really helpful about what I do is just to kind of push that out to students, too.
Carol: And I'm sure we have a ton of counselors listening, thinking, oh, my gosh, what do I not know?
Sarah: Right? A hundred yo. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And are there times when I'm frustrated because I don't know it? Yes. Are there times when I make mistakes that affect things? Absolutely. Like, I just made one today, and I felt so horrible.
And of course, people are like, sarah, you're human. It's okay. And I'm like, I know, but like, oh, I don't. And I think that just me as a person, but I just know I don't want.
I. I want that support. And not that what I did, it was a minor thing. It wasn't a big deal, but still, it's just something that I think, okay, even 20 years in, like, I'm still doing these things not because I don't know what I'm doing.
It's just because I am human and I do have to give myself that grace that. What if I need to cancel a group today because I'm exhausted? I am. I'm just gonna sit and actually eat my lunch in private.
Right. When does that happen? Never. So.
Carol: Yeah. Yeah. So this has been great. I think people that are listening definitely gotten a lot from. From hearing what a day is. Like, maybe they're coming from middle school or thinking about elementary, or maybe they're brand new and maybe their school is just very different and they're like, is there another way to do this?
Or what else should I be.
Sarah: Should I be doing? Yeah, yeah.
Carol: And just hearing. How about some of your lessons? I just love that.
Sarah: That's probably like, yeah, yeah. When I'd be happy. I mean, I know you have my email, but I'd be happy to share some of the basic worksheets that I've created. Like that X's and O thing.
I have like five or six that I've created that I always share to my classes. I'd be happy to. You're. You're welcome to give out my email or whatever that if people are interested, that they're welcome to just message me.
I don't have them on like, teachers, pay teachers or anything. I just have them. So, like, for the ISCA conference, you know, I'll share those and then I'll just say, okay, here they are.
Right. Just use them, lose them, or. Or take them and edit them. And that's what I often say about even that ex's nose thing. Developmentally, it can be used for this.
However, what can you as a high school counselor do to make this what your kids need? Maybe they don't need the actual path. Maybe it's something different. I don't know.
Right. So kind of make it work to whatever you need. But yeah, I'd be happy to connect with anybody.
Carol: Yeah, that would be great.
Sarah: That would be great.
Carol: So I will make sure in the show notes that I add contact.
Sarah: Perfect. Sounds good.
Carol: So, yeah. Well, thank you so much, but I think it's going to be helpful for a lot of counselors. And. Yeah, thanks. Thanks again. We'll have to talk another time. We'll have to, like, share some other things that we're doing.
Sarah: You. Yes, you tell me whenever. I'm always happy to provide whatever I can. And yeah, if there's a topic that comes up, you have my email. Just send me an email and say, hey, I'm thinking about doing a podcast about this general topic.
What do you have? Or even like to include graduate students and what they would like to know. I know I would have several that would love to do that, too.
So if that's something that ever. Yeah, that would ever come up, let me know.
Carol: Okay, sounds great. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And for our counselors that are listening. Thank you for joining us.
Sarah: You are awesome. You're doing great work.
Carol: Work because we need you. And until next week, have a great week. Bye for now.
Sarah: Thank you, everyone.
Carol: Yeah, thank you so much.
Okay, bye.
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