62. Navigating the Chaos: Mastering the Unpredictable World of School Counseling with Laura Filtness

Carol: You're listening to the counselor Chat podcast, a show for school counselors looking for easy to implement strategies, how to tips, collaboration, and a little spark of joy. I'm Carol Miller, your host. I'm a full time school counselor and the face behind counseling essentials. I'm all about creating simplified systems, data driven practices, and using creative approaches to engage students. If you're looking for a little inspiration to help you make a big impact on student growth and success, you're in the right place because we're better together. Ready to chat? Let's dive in. I am so excited. The 2024 summer Counselor Conference registration page is open, so consider this your official invitation to join us this summer. The conference happens on July 26 through 28th. This virtual conference offers over 40 sessions and two amazing keynote sessions, and the sessions cover topics so helpful to school counselors, including sessions on group and individual counseling, organization, working with students with adhd or anxiety, grief, autism, data collection, and so much more. All sessions are pre recorded and available for viewing until June 2025. We also have live q and a speaker channels, networking events, tons of free resources, and the opportunity to earn three graduate credits through the University of the Pacific. If you are looking for relevant PD that's super affordable. This is it. So why don't you join us? Just go to wwmrcounselorconference.com to register. We'll see you inside the conference. Hi everyone, it's Carol. Welcome back to another exciting. I'm going to say exciting today because we have a guest with us, episode of Counselor Chat. And so with us today, we have a good friend of mine. Her name is Laura Viltnes and she is from positive school counselor and an elementary school counselor in Tennessee. So, Laura, hi. Welcome.

Laura: Hi Carol. It's so good to be here.

Carol: So before we really dive in to our little chat today, I was hoping that maybe you just want to say a quick thing or two about yourself in case some of our listeners haven't, like, turned on in social media or, you know, been on TBT or Facebook or any of those things that they don't know who you are, which.

Laura: Yeah. Yes. Let me, I'll give you a little brief overview. I'm Laura felt this. I have been a school counselor since 2008, and I have been yoga teacher and Pilates teacher even longer than that. Early on in my program, I started implementing therapy dogs into our program, especially pit bulls, because I really love advocating for them. And then I adopted a pit bull of my own who became my therapy dog. And that's kind of how the positive the paws started is that I became a little doggy obsessed. And it was actually at an Asuka conference. We were just talking about ask a conferences that they talked about branding your program. I cannot remember for the life. Me who talked about it now can see him in my mind, but I can't think about it. And he talked about, like, branding your program. And I was like, oh, that's what I'm going to do. It's going to be all dog themed. And it started at school, and then I started this ridiculous blog. I found an old blog post from 2013 the other day, and I was like, oh, my gosh, you're old. Where I just was blogging to remember, like, I wanted to remember the fun lessons I had done, because the next year I'd be like, what did I do last year? And just started as fun and just a fun way for me to share my love of dogs and counseling and honestly, to help me remember what I'm doing. And then it turned into an Instagram thing and then started selling a few things on teachers, pay teachers, and it's kind of blossomed from there.

Carol: That's so funny, because I know exactly the, the session of the conference. I think it was actually Jeff ream that.

Laura: Yeah, it was. I could see Jeff in my mind and I could not. That's exactly, we must have been, like.

Carol: Sitting in the same, like, little section. So, yeah, I was there, too. But in terms of blogging, it's so funny that you said that, too, because that's exactly why I started my blog way back in the day, because I was brand new. Well, not a new counselor, but I was new to the middle school, and I didn't know what I was doing because I had been a high school counselor for so long. I was like, I'm going to do this as a way to, like, keep myself accountable and kind of remember what I did. So I'm glad I'm not the only one who started that.

Laura: It's just like, you have these great ideas, and you're like, I'm going to remember this forever. And then you have the summer, and you go back in August, you're like, it's. Anybody remembered what that great idea was? What did I do?

Carol: Yeah.

Laura: Yep.

Carol: So, but, yeah, so I am so excited that you're here and that you're gonna chat with us and we're gonna talk all about school counseling programs today. Well, as much as we can fit in, I'm talking kind of about, well, I'm gonna back up for our friends here a little bit before we actually turned on record, we were talking a little bit about how our days are just kind of crazy. And we start with one thing in mind and it just goes, whoo. And it's totally something different.

Laura: It is completely like, even I had to leave school a little bit early today and I said, hope said to my principal, hopefully you won't have an emergency in an hour. And she's like, well, now you put it out into the universe. I was like, I know, I sure did. And I have told my interns that all the time, like, I don't want you to even think, oh, this is a calm day, because as soon as you think it, our day won't be calm. And whatever you think is going to happen in our day, when you walked in at the start of the school day, I promise you, it's probably not how our day will look like. I think a presenter I heard once said, like, our plans are set in Jell O. And I was like, that is so true. Our plans are always set in Jello.

Carol: And I think if you walk into a calm day, it's kind of like the calm before the storm. Because if it's calm when you walk in, I think, you know, it's, you know what's coming. You know what?

Laura: You just. What's coming. If you sit down with the to do list and you think, oh, I can get this done today, you have just set yourself up for something.

Carol: Exactly. And I'm sure there's counselors out there that are listening to this that have their hands raised and they're like, yeah, me, too, me too.

Laura: Just our days, it's like, I can't tell you how many. Especially over the last few years, I'll map out what I think my year is going to look like and all these great programs and projects, and then it'll get to be about spring break time. And I'm like, wow, that seems like a next year to do. Like, it just, you, like, the days get rocky and rolling and then all of a sudden these, these bigger picture things can sometimes all of a sudden that, that shifts. I heard this about, like, just raising kids and it's that the day, the days are long, but the years are short. And I'm like, that's how it feels for me as a school counselor. My days can feel long and chaotic, but then the years, I'm like, oh, my gosh, where did this year go? And so many great ideas that I had didn't come to fruition and that's kind of where I got the idea of the presentation I'm going to do for the summer conference is helping you figure out how to go from, like, that frustrating tears of, like, this isn't happening. I feel like I'm just putting out fires. I'm a firefighter. That isn't accomplishing anything because I'm, or I'm playing whack a molecule to really helping you get some tiers in place so that at the end of the year, you're not feeling like, okay, what did I accomplish this year? Because I got there for sure.

Carol: Yeah, I think that is definitely true. You know, my, and we were talking about this earlier, too, that my year in New York, we still have, like, a whole month to go, but we were like, my co counselor and I, we share an office and we were looking at June because, you know, we're planning, you know, what we're going to do for the end of the school year and the lessons that we're going to, we really want to focus in on because, you know, like you said we went through, we were like, we're going to cover this, this, this, and this, and now it's towards the end of the year, and we're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't get everything in. And we're still wrapping up our careers and we still have, like, three more things that we want to accomplish. How are you going to fit it all in? And then we're looking at the schedule. We're like, oh, there's this field trip, and then this grade's going to be out for this reason.

Laura: And that's may for us. There's so many fun events going on, which is wonderful. I love all the fun stuff. But you're like, do I want to add something to the school calendar? Can I even fit it in? Do the kids even, or they even listen to a word I'm saying?

Carol: Exactly. Exactly.

Laura: And it might not be like this New York for me, too. Over the summer, a lot happens from, like, our central office downtown. So what has been hard for me is I will go to, like, ask every summer and I'll just kind of relax and rejuvenate and I'll come back with a little more energy and great plans. Almost always, we'll start the school year out with a district wide meeting where they're like, and now. And they'll tell us all these things that have changed or new implementations. And I'm like, and my year is going to look different. So, like, for us this year, we started with the like, one of our very first meetings was we were going to have a mandated curriculum and a mandated curriculum map. So that totally shifted a huge chunks of my program and just that. So I even coming back from summer, the best laid plans, telling you, it's definitely true, right?

Carol: Or this year, this summer, we're getting a new superintendent. So we're all on, like, what changes are they're going to make and what, you know, what, things are going to be different in the counseling department. We're also a little excited about our new superintendent because she's a former school counselor, so we are super excited, but at the same time, like, oh, what is she going to make us do? We'll see how that goes.

Laura: That's always, I've had new admin over so many years right now, they just shift them a lot in my county, and you can tell everybody's, like, in that first meeting, meeting the principal, like, I need to know what's changing. And most importantly, can I, like, what's the dress code situation?

Carol: We don't really have to worry about dress code too much. We're in New York.

Laura: I wear, I mean, I'm telling you, ever since I've been, like, in sweatpants and comfy clothes and, like, even jeans. I'm like, oh, jeans feel fancy today. And so I have told my supervisor, I'm like, when you're placing me in a school, I just want you to think about, there are some principals out there that still make, they still make all the ladies wear, like, skirts and dresses. I'm like, I won't do well there.

Carol: In my, the first district that I worked in, it was a New York district, but in my first district, we had to wear, we had to wear dresses. The women had to wear dresses. And if we didn't wear dresses, we could wear dress pants. But we were supposed to wear a blazer. Like, a dress blazer. So we always had to be on that professional thing.

Laura: Yeah.

Carol: And, yeah, and I did, but I can't imagine doing that now because my, I wear a pair of yoga pants and, like, a sweater or t shirt, like, every day. Yep, they're dressy yoga pants, but still, they're yoga pants.

Laura: Me too, because I just never know when I'm gonna end up helping out with recess or have it have a kid throw up on me or I'm getting down on the ground with them and playing. I mean, we're just so active. The idea of doing my job at a dress, at times, I'm like, oh, I don't know that I would do very well with it.

Carol: Right?

Laura: Yeah. In our district, too, we, they shift us around so we sometimes don't know until right before school what school we're gonna go to. So that's something else that can always shift for us, is you're not necessarily always returning to the same school every year.

Carol: I don't know how I would do with that. I don't think I deal with that very, very well.

Laura: It took me a little while. I'm still adjusting to it. It's made me really look at my program. It's really made me prioritize what's, like, really important. It really has kind of helped me reflect back and start a program from scratch a couple of times. Now. The other thing it's helping me do, I can't say I'm there yet, is helping me look at inventory the stuff in my office and what I actually touch and use every day, because, like, even today, I was packing up my office for the end of the year because they're going to move us from a portable classroom into a shared office, tiny space. And I was trying really hard to go through and, like, purge and get rid of stuff. And if anybody has ever met me, they know where I struggled with my books. I was like, I cannot let go of these picture books, you guys. I'm sorry. I will need my own therapist for this. I tried. I was inventorying them, and I have gotten it down from like 700 to 500, but I don't know that I can go any lower. I'm going to have to talk to my own counselor about that.

Carol: I have a lot of picture books, not quite that many, but we have a whole bookshelf filled. And, you know, a few years ago, after I started in this district that I'm at now, our building flooded. And so our. It was one of the larger elementary schools at that time. And days, I'm talking like three or four days before school started, they decided we're shutting down the school for good. And they took all of us, and they just, like, with their magic little wands and put us in different buildings. And I can't believe what they accomplished in three days. But they found us all homes. But I can remember going from, like, this huge office to now I share an office and I love my co counselor, but our office is, it's tiny. Like, if I reach out, I'm touching her like she's right there. And so, you know, because our space is so small, she had stuff. And then we're, like, trying to combine all our stuff in this little, teeny, tiny room. So it's hard parent down, but it definitely makes you realize, like, what I actually use versus, like, what did I.

Laura: Really touch this year? What do I always grab? What are, like, the most used items? Which is very funny, because in the summers here, I work for a company called help you dwell, and we do things at homes and offices. Anything to just kind of bring Zen back into that person's life. And one of my favorite jobs to get called out for is helping people organize and purge their stuff so that it's more accessible. They're going to use it more. So if I go into anybody else's home, I'm like, oh, we've got this. When it comes to my own stuff, I'm like, I don't know, you guys. I really might need that book.

Carol: Well, that's, like, a lot of. I have so many things. I really have done a good job of paring things down in my counseling world. We're trying to incorporate this into our household as well. And I'm pretty good with a lot of my stuff. Stuff. But my husband, he went and he tried to touch my, like, I call it my Tupperware cabinet or, no, he touched it. I went ballistic. I was like, you can't touch my stuff. Get rid of your own. Have you looked at your garage?

Laura: Yep. That hits me wholeheartedly by heart. I've had many of. Many a fight in my own home about, that's my stuff, don't touch it. And now everything that I've gone through and labeled and organized, it says, do not touch. I have put post sent notes on it that say, do not touch. Like, just don't. Don't do it.

Carol: Yeah, yeah. And I definitely.

Laura: It's so funny. Go ahead.

Carol: I definitely have, like, a home in my home for each thing, even at school. Like, I know where to go for the tapes, and I know where to go for this, and I know where to go for that. And my kids know that if in both school and home, that if they borrow something and they don't put it back where it was meant for. Ooh, are they gonna get it?

Laura: I know I was add on. It might not make sense to you where I've put it here, but it made sense to me, so I just need it to be there. And my. I started calling him the man that lives in my home, the sweet man that lives my home. Because we have been engaged for so long. I'm like, oh, just. We're just. Yeah. Covid happened, and life happened, and I was like, well, we'll worry about that later. So now I'm like, you're the man that lives with me. He cleans really air quoting that one. You guys like major air quotes on the clean. And I will come home and he will have removed things. I wouldn't say he cleaned it. It's just in a new location. And I'm like, that's not, that's not its house. That's not where it belongs. And, well, I thought it would be better. I don't know why you thought that. We're gonna have to. He is the reason. He prompted me to do an Asca presentation a couple of years ago on supporting ADHD because I think I have some tendencies that probably stem from a lot of anxiety that he has ADHD. It is just so, it's just been so interesting to live with somebody with ADHD. I've worked with kids with ADHD for years and it was one thing, but to live with it, I was like, oh my goodness. And I've labeled everything. I wouldn't say he reads the labels, but yeah, I definitely, and I will say this also makes me appreciate when our kids get really upset about having their stuff like taken away or touched. I'm like, I understand that. That. I get it. It would bother me too.

Carol: I think it's our lived life experiences that definitely give us empathy towards our kids. That is 100% for sure. And I'm sure our listeners ran listening to us ramble about our people that are in our households that we have to deal with on a daily basis. They're thinking, yep, I get it. They can feel you. I'm right there with you. But yeah, this all adds to the craziness of our school counseling lives and the system.

Laura: Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Carol: So, oh, so I'm trying to get us back like on track and I'm just still cracking up, but I'm gonna edit.

Laura: Well, that isn't like the epitome of the school year. You, we started on track, we got off track, and then you realize you have a month till summer.

Carol: It's all, it's all good, though. It's all good. But so our, for our friends listening because I'm sure they know that they're going to be encountering or maybe they're new counselors. So people, if your brand spanking new, we are giving you some really valuable advice here because this is going to be your, your life too. There's just these times in our day that just don't go how we planned and, Laura, why don't you share a tip? Like, what do you do?

Laura: Oh, it's so. It's so hard. And the thing that I'm trying to really be more mindful of is honestly being mindful so I can be more responsive and not reactive. I found when I was a brand new counselor, and I shouldn't even say new, because I did it for so, so many years. When did we start the summer comer summer conference? Is it 2021? 2022? Well, fourth year.

Carol: It's been a while. We've done it, I think, for about five, maybe six years. When we started with.

Laura: Okay, so I was about five or six years ago, I was still practicing, like, so practicing this. And it was at the summer conference that Laura said, when somebody sees you in the hallway and they catch you and say, oh, hey, could you see? Da da da? And you've got, like, this in passing referral in the hallway. She's like, do you ever step back and look at how many kids you're working with? That was the referrals. You were going to heat up your lunch, and somebody said, oh, hey, I've seen you. So. And as soon as she said it, I was like, that's me. That is my life. Like, my day is crazy and chaotic, and I wasn't taking that because I'm a helper. I have hard time setting boundaries and saying no. Like, all the reasons we got into the shop, we love people. We want to help, but am I really doing my best job helping when I'm not? When I'm just being reactive and I'm not really being responsive and, like, really slowing down. And that was huge for me. Like, it was life changing for me because I looked back at who I was seeing, why I was seeing them, and I know our. That the tiered model, the MTSs model is a little gray in areas, but really, like, individual counseling, we could say, is, like, a tier two, even a tier three service. And I was like, I'm spending so much of my time living in that land where I'm running around helping these individual kids, where I could slow down and look at my tier one services, my tier two other services, and could I beef those up to give me a little breathing time? And that was it. Like, I needed to take those mindful moments, which is funny, because I've been a very big proponent of practicing mindfulness in schools and using, like, the mind up curriculum and making it part of our classroom lessons. So I was preaching it all the time, but then when I looked at it, I was like, oh, my gosh, am I taking mindful moments to look at my program and how my program is running? So I've told my interns this every year. I've had one. Now is when you go into a school your first year, don't change anything. I wish my admin could listen to that, too. Don't change any. Just learn the school culture. Learn the program. Learn how things are running. Just observe, gather data, and build those relationships. And then year two, start making those tweaks, because you really want to just not be reactive, and that's really hard, especially if they've had a longstanding counselor before you to come in and they'll say, I heard this a lot. Well, the last counselor did this. The last counselor did that. And, I mean, I remember for years, the last counselor did character education awards. I was like, that is wonderful. And I did them for many years. And then one day I was like, but why am I doing these? It's not changing anybody's behavior. It's not. I was doing it because somebody else had done it, and it was not taking a huge chunk of my time. But I was like, I had to really stop and, like, take that mindful moment of, like, why am I doing this? And it was because I had this peer pressure of hearing. Well, the last counselor did.

Carol: You know, it's. I'm so glad that you said that, too, because when I. So I've been at this district for six years now, and, well, this is my fifth year. I'm going. I'll be going in my 6th year. When I started, and they were, like, interviewing me, one of the questions that they asked me was, what programs are you going to bring to us? What are you going to do for us, like, right away, and, like, tell us about your first year and what you're going to do. And I said absolutely nothing. He looked at me like, what? But you're. You. Like, you. We're getting you because you're Carol Miller. You're, like, you're supposed to be doing some. Something amazing, you know? Like, first of all, I'm just a person, you know, I'm glad that you know me from Niska and from my blog and whatever, but the thing is, I don't know what you need. And I'm not just going to start, like, magically saying, oh, let's change this, or, let's do that. It's really important to know your school first.

Laura: It is. Because if you don't otherwise. I have said this to a couple of people, like, it's like you're just throwing spaghetti at a wall and just hoping to see what sticks. And I'm like, let's not just go in and just, like, hope. Like, let's really think about why. And sometimes that why is, like, I enjoy it and it brings me joy, and it brings the school joy, and I appreciate that, and I never want to knock that down. But if the why is just, like, because somebody else did it or it's fun or, like, because I want to, or I saw it on Pinterest that I'm like, well, let's just take a. A breather. Like, let's just take a step back and really look at the why of why we're doing things and how we're doing them and if they're running efficiently and. Yeah. And so that's been me my first couple years at new schools. I'm really laying low. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm, like, gently easing into it, and I'm gently taking some things away. Now, some people might have some real strong opinions about this, and I'm sorry, listeners, but, like, one of the things I slowly drifted away from over the years was red ribbon week. I was like, I cannot find any part of this that I feel like is so substantial for my kids that they're getting so much from this. Where if I spent that same time doing these other programs, XYZ, I could say, like, oh, look at these changes made. So. And even when I started my program at several schools, we did so many counselor workshops with the parents. It was my favorite, favorite thing that might have actually been how my blog started was I would work with our technology person in our library, two of my best friends, and we would do these amazing parent workshops. I mean, so many parents would come. It was such the meat in the heart of my program. And then as I went to new schools, I started realizing, like, in my other schools, those parents, that's not how they were going to engage with me. I could set up the world best parent coffee with a counselor, and nobody was coming. And I had k cups that lasted me a year. One year, literally, I bought so many, one of my first years that I was, like, just giving k cups away because nobody came. So it was that, like, I needed to slow down because what worked at one school might not work with another, like, in another school or where you did your internship and you learned these amazing things. It might not work at the school you're going to be placed at. And then years have changed. I mean, I think everybody could say, Covid kind of changed things. So, so things that worked even, like, 510 years ago, there might be a better way to do it. Like, thanks to Covid, I've taken a lot of our college and career day activities online and virtual. So, you know, there's a lot more options. But it was, like I said, it's just taking that moment to, like, look at it so that I don't feel as crazy or as overwhelmed or had, you know, just running around.

Carol: I get it. And I think the size of your school can determine a lot of that, too, because I think back to some of the things that I used to love doing, and I'm thinking, oh, but that was a different school. I like where I am right now. It wouldn't work the same way. I couldn't do that.

Laura: And sometimes you just learn that their life. Like, I. My very first elementary school, tiny little school for gifted and high achieving students, and we had this mom who was like a personal volunteer to me. I mean, like, she would just come in and be like, what do you need? I was like, who, who is this angel? And I was brand new. This was before I knew about, like, parent advisor, like, advisory team. So it was just like, me and her. We were our own advisory team. And we made a career day where every kid had a custom schedule and got to hear custom speakers, like, based on their, like, their, like, inventory that they took. It was amazing. It was a small school, so it worked. Then I went to a bigger school in Knoxville with almost a thousand students. And I tried the same thing that first year because that's what I knew, that's what I had done. And to say it blew up in my face would be like an understatement. And I say this in my presentation. My presentation is truly years worth of the best advice I've ever heard and how, like, it impacted my program and how I've implemented it. So it's not all, like, original Laura feltness ideas. It's like all the wisdom that has transformed my program in the years, like, kind of in one little nutshell. And that's like my gift for everybody else because it was really these, like, moments that I have had in different PD's, like, from branding to, like, things I've heard at the summer conference where I'm like, oh, oh, wait a second. Oh, wait a second. That's just really. Yeah. So that is my little nugget for all of our listeners that are coming to the summer camp conference, because I hope that you also have these moments of like, oh, okay. It's so simple, but it can, like, just totally transform how you're doing things.

Carol: I definitely think that sometimes our world and what we know is really limited by just our lived experiences, right? So if we haven't lived that experience yet, we don't know, like, maybe a different way or another viewpoint or a different system for it. But as we grow and as we get the experience and we meet new people and we go to a conference, we gain those little nuggets that I think really help develop and shape us. So I think for people that are listening right now, that's one thing that they just need to keep as a little nugget for themselves. Like, your program will shift, it will grow, it will change over time, and it's going to be for the better. And don't think that you got to do it all at once, because no less is more.

Laura: Comprehensive does not equal more. I had a co counselor who I just, like, that was. I was like, if there's anything you'd learn from me this year, can it be that comprehensive doesn't equal more? It doesn't have to be more things. It can be, like, substantial and deeper and richer things and fewer. Fewer things. And, man, talk about lived experiences. I remember working with counselors that were part time or split between schools for several years, and I had never done it. I was just thinking, okay, well, this is how I think I could make it work, or this is it. And then I went to a split position where I was going back and forth between two schools. And when you live it, I was like, okay, this is. This is different. But it was, it was that lived experience, and it really just kind of transformed. And luckily, I knew people that had gone through it, so I call them and be like, I'm sure we've talked about this before, but now I'm living it. Will you tell me that, that advice again? Like, tell me one more time how you think I should do the days. Like, did you say two back to back at one school or. No, I can't remember. And now I need to. It's like, very important right now where it wasn't, you know, six months ago. So, you know, sometimes you think, oh, I'm not. That doesn't apply to me. But you never know. Life changes. Things happen. You never know when these things are going to apply to you.

Carol: That's why we kind of have to be like a file cabinet, right? You have to have all those files for, you never know when you're going to need them again. It's also kind of like, you know, I'm thinking about just starting the school year up or having a, like, a program that you do once a year. Like you said, a career fair. We just actually had a career fair yesterday. It was our very first one. And it's like you have to take some notes, you have to file it away, and then you have to revisit it from time to time, because a whole year goes by you might not remember from one year.

Laura: Well, and I, like, I did career programs at the same school for several years, and people change, or they move jobs, or you might not have the same speakers. And then, I mean, I have been doing career days, I mean, again, since, like, 2008, a long, long time. And then this year, I was in a new school. I was trying to think about how I was doing it, and I called one of our, like, newer counselors to the county. I was like, okay, now tell me everything you're doing. I was like, I have been doing this for a long time, but is. I want to know what you are doing. How is it working for, like, you and your school? Because her school is, like, comparable size. She was just like me. She was only part time. And it was nice to have to be able to bounce ideas off of somebody, because currently I'm the only counselor in my building. There's nobody to bounce. That's not true. I have my advisory team, but it's nice to have another counselor. I should say, bounce some ideas off of the advisory team is great, but one of the things I love about professional development in the summer is talking to other counselors.

Carol: It's true, because I think you also feed off of other people's energy. And I think when you go to a conference or you're sitting around and maybe you're in a session and you hear something, and you're, like, sparked by that. Ooh, that. Like, something about that just hit me. Like, the energy is just contagious.

Laura: Yes.

Carol: And so I know we were talking about aska before, like, I've been to. I can't tell you how many ask us now. And there's always something about it. The energy that's in the room is unmatched. Like, I go to my skate, my state conference every year. It is not the same. I mean, there's energy there, but not like Asuka.

Laura: No, there it. That is so, so true. I went very naively, knowing nothing in Orlando. Can't even think of what year that would have been, that I was newer to my county, and they had some extra money. And they're like, do you want to go? And I had family in Orlando. I was like, oh, sure, I'll go and see it. And then now, first, Michelle Obama was the keynote speaker. I still get goosebumps just thinking about that. But I remember coming home, like, what was that? Like? There was a buzz about it. Like, I came home buzzing with energy and excitement and, like, it was just so incredible. It is also simultaneously, I think, so exhausting. So if any listeners are going to ask her for the first time, my other advice would be schedule some downtime. I remember for years I went to every single session. I never met, ever missed one. I could not miss something. But, like, schedule some downtime. It's okay if you miss a single session or your brain will be too full anyway, so, like, it'll be okay. And then enjoy the city you're in. Because for many years, I never left anything but the conference, like, the conference rooms. So it's taken me years to be, like, go out, and I have learned just as much meeting people at some of the social events and going out to dinner with them as I have in a session. So. Oh, ask us. Just a special experience really, is.

Carol: It took me a long time to realize that I shouldn't leave the day that the conference ends and try to get the first flight home. So now I try to stay an extra day just so that I can, like, see what the city's all about and what it has to offer. And because your go all the way to these places and you're spending, like, a ton of money on airfare and hotels and all that stuff, like, take the day to really just absorb it in and to give yourself little grace before you have to, like, start thinking, like, oh, my gosh, how am I going to put my, where am I going to put my, my bags while I'm at that last session? Because I'm out, I have to check out of my hotel room and, like, don't worry about it. Like, take that extra day.

Laura: That's exactly. And I think that's kind of in essence, like, my program is, like, giving yourself grace and permission to slow down to, like, give yourself a day, a year. Like, you, nobody expects you to have this, you know, award winning program your first year or your first three, you know, nobody, nobody is keeping tallies on you to make sure that you go to every session and that you leave, like, you know, right when the conference is over, just slowing down to enjoy. It's just really, yeah, it just makes that event so much better. And more meaningful.

Carol: I also think it's important that if you're in a session and you're like, oh, this isn't what I wanted, or this isn't what I, you know, was planning, it's okay to get up, leave and go to something different. And I say this as a presenter that has presented multiple times that I don't get offended if you get up and leave, because I know it's expensive. Like, get the most out of it. If you're exactly, you don't want to sit in with me, that's okay. I'm good. I want you to find what you need because that's why I'm, I'll tell.

Laura: You, I looked at the schedule this year, and at the exact same time, somebody is presenting at me, I'm using therapy dogs. And I was like, well, can I leave my own session and go to that one next door? Can we go vine?

Carol: That might be a problem for you. You have to choose.

Laura: I mean, if somebody got up and went to that, I'd be like, yes, it bring me back all the notes and pictures, all the things I'm missing. And that's. You're exactly right. You give yourself permission to do that because there are so many great sessions, and that lineup is sometimes hard to pick from.

Carol: If you're going by yourself, don't be afraid to just hop in with somebody else, because I, my friends that I usually go with, they always, they always make fun of me, and they're like, you're going to pick up all the strays? And, yes, I am going to pick up all the people who are without people because I don't like being without my people. So I want them to be with people, too. So those people will become my people. So if you are astray, I will pick you up. There are other people who pick you up.

Laura: I'll hang out with you. You will have, yes. And it's funny, the more years you go, the more I'm like, oh, I know them. I recognize them. Like, you start to see the same faces. And it's just amazing that people you'll meet at Asuka. I will never forget meeting Rebecca Atkins for the first time at a conference because I, she was sitting next to me, and her handwriting is so neat. I still think about it to this day, and her notes were color coordinated, and they were neat, and I was like, may I not take notes and just take a picture of yours at the end? But they were spectacular, and that's how I met her. And it's just it's amazing the people you will meet there.

Carol: It is truly amazing. I, you know, the Florida one, that was actually my first ask a conference that I went to, and I actually started TPT so that I could go to the conference because my district was not going to pay. And I was like, if I could only make a little bit of money so that I can get to the conference. And I did. I made a little bit of money. I paid for my airfare, and I thought, oh, I am golden. And I went there and it was like, oh, my gosh, there's this person that I see online. They're like a superstar. And then there's this person and there's this person. And it was just the coolest experience.

Laura: It really is. And another tip, you will leave with so many ideas. Remember, give yourself permission. You have to put them all. You don't have to implement them all. When you come back to school, like, I always leave with great ideas, like pick your, like, top two to do when you come back because there are just so many great minds in one place.

Carol: And I think the people that you meet when you're there, they're going to be your friends for life. Because I think back to that first conference, and I think, like, even for our conference, so many of the presenters that we have, I met through Asuka. So basically everyone who's presenting at the summer conference counselor conference has presented at ASCA and, which is really cool. So, you know, and I know it's not the same thing. And, but for those of you that can't go to an ask a conference, because I get it. It's a lot of money. And if you just, if your district doesn't pay, I've been there. In fact, I'm still there because my district doesn't pay. I'm still a whole self pay.

Laura: You have to go in at nine, Carol.

Carol: You know, our little summer counselor conference, we try to bring the same energy.

Laura: This might be one of those parts where you told me we can edit it out. You might have to edit out for our *** people. I will say, and I mean this with true sincerity, I love this conference more than I love Asuka. I think it's because I can do it at home. I can, like, self pace, I can play with my dogs, I can pause it, I can come back. I can, like, there's so many things, but I think that you have honestly, and I do not say this slightly, I think you've honestly stolen the best of the best from Aska because like, every time I'm like, every summer I'm like, that was the best pd I did all summer. And I feel that way wholeheartedly every year, getting to watch these amazing presenters, it's just an, it's an amazing conference.

Carol: I think it's because, you know, I've been in people's shoes where they feel like I just don't have any money, I just don't have the time, or I just don't have the support of somebody saying, you can go to one of these conferences or you have to figure out PD all on your own. And I think PD is one of the biggest gifts that we can give to ourselves. And I have really made it, like, truly a mission to provide the best PD at the most affordable, affordable price. Because people that are probably don't know, like you guys, I want also presenters to be compensated somehow to, because they put a lot of time into this. And so it's really important.

Laura: But the other cool thing about being virtual is once your year gets started, if you're like, I kind of remember that idea. I remember what they said. I love that you can go back and rewatch it. Like small groups for me especially, like, I would listen, I would learn. I was like, yes, that's. I'm going to make this tweak to my small groups. And then I'd be setting them up and I'd be like, okay, now what did they say again? And I would go right back to the video and that spot be like, oh, yes, okay, that's what I need to do. It's so handy.

Carol: And we have a lot of districts now that are saying, we're going to get this and we are going to save it for our PD days. So that when we have the whole district PD days and there's nothing like math content or reading content, we have something. Oh, watch.

Laura: Party with popcorn. That's fun.

Carol: So, you know, this is another great way to get those PD hours. You know, you could save it. Save it for later.

Laura: You really can't. I think that's really important because, like we said, it's like your lived experience. You don't realize. You're like, maybe that'll apply to me. And then you're in the moment. You're like, okay, what did that person tell me? What was their advice?

Carol: And, you know, the other thing about the conference is I really spend a lot of time, like, recruiting presenters because I want it to be so diverse. Because people in the past, like past attendees have said to me, hey, look, I really want people that look like me that are from the same area that I'm from that maybe deal with the same populations of students that I deal with. And so I really try to have a lot of diversity. Yeah, I think it shows.

Laura: Like, if you look at the lineup, it absolutely does.

Carol: It's there. So it's kind of like Asuka without being at Asuka.

Laura: Yeah. There's nothing like seeing people in person. But just think, you get to get to meet us virtually this year, maybe when you'll get to meet us in person at Asuka.

Carol: Exactly. And we try to make the zooms. I don't know. We're kind of goofy a little bit sometimes. Sometimes I get on a little rant. Sorry, people. Because I'm just so passionate. And I don't mean to sound angry. I'm just very passionate.

Laura: That's okay. I get real passionate. When people ask me what age or grade they should use a picture book for, I'm like, well, they are ageless. They're timeless. You could beat up in high school. I'm a great adult crying over this picture book. There are no age limits or genders. Oh, is there a boys book or a girl's book? Oh, my gosh. If you ever want to hear me get passionate. So I get it. I can sound like I'm ranting when I'm just really passionate about picture books.

Carol: I will say just about picture books, because, you know, when I first started, the Facebook groups and people would post, particularly elementary, is there a book for blah, blah, blah. I was a middle school counselor at the time. I was always like, people, why do you think you need a book for?

Laura: Now that Carol, I use a book for almost everything.

Carol: No. Then I became an elementary counselor, and I'm like, oh, I know why you need a book for everything.

Laura: When I started in high school, and then I went to elementary, and one of my very first years, somebody said, well, that must be so different. And I was like, actually, not really. I was like, my kids go through very same things. We have grief. We have loss. I was like, the major concepts are the same. I was like, but the difference is, in elementary school, there's a picture book for that.

Carol: I think the big difference between elementary and high school is that in elementary school, you work with kids. In high school, you work for them. Like, you're doing their recommendations. You're getting their stuff together. You are working. You are the assistant to that. In elementary, they're right there next to you. They're doing it with you.

Laura: Oh, they're fun with grade levels. There are so many pros and cons. I will say, now it's graduation. I miss working at a high school and I miss seeing all my students graduate. I'm like, oh, I have to wait so many more years for you guys to graduate. Probably so many years you won't even remember me when you walk across that stage.

Carol: Oh, no, I'm sure they'll always remember. Anyway, I think we've been on this for a long time, and I don't want to bore our people for having them listen to a really long podcast. But I know I could talk for hours because I just like to talk. But I think we should spare them from having to listen to me anymore. Anyway, I want to really thank you for joining us today and for our listeners. You guys really need to come to our conference. It is going to be great. Laura's going to be there. I'm going to be there. We have. If you don't like either one of us, no big deal, because there's like 39 other people to choose from. And it'll be a good time. I promise it will be.

Laura: Thanks for having me.

Carol: Yeah, thank you. All right, thanks for listening to today's episode of Counselor chat. All of the links I talked about can be found in the show notes and@counselingessentials.org podcast. Be sure to hit, follow, or subscribe on your favorite podcast player. And if you would be so kind to leave a review, I'd really appreciate it. Want to connect? Send me a DM on Facebook or instagramounselingessentials. Until next time, keep can't wait till we chat. Bye for now.