178. Small Groups: Who Should You Start With First?

You're listening to the Counselor Chat podcast, a show for school counselors looking for easy to implement strategies, how to tips, collaboration, and a little spark of joy.

I'm Carol Miller, your host. I'm a full time school counselor and the face behind counseling essentials. I'm all about creating simplified systems, data driven practices, and using creative approaches to engage students.

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Welcome back everyone to Counselor Chat.

This is the podcast where we're going to talk all about the real work that we do in school counseling, all the strategies, the ideas, and some practical tools to help support you,

your students,

without feeling like you have to figure out everything all on your own.

I'm your host, Carol Miller, and today we're talking about small groups.

More specifically,

which small groups should you start with first?

Because once that school year gets moving,

it usually doesn't take long before the suggestions start coming in.

I mean, a teacher asks if you can run a friendship group or another one has several students who need help managing anger.

Your administration is concerned about attendance,

and the parents ask you to start a divorce group.

And then you remember that you ran a confidence group last year,

so maybe you should run that one again.

And before you know it, you have this list of 8 possible groups and really only enough time to really run about two.

So, my friends, how do you decide?

I think many counselors begin by repeating the groups that they ran the year before.

And that makes sense. I mean, you already have the curriculum.

You know how the sessions work.

You might even have the parent letters and the referral forms all ready to go.

But just because a group was needed last year does not automatically mean it's the group your students need most this year.

And today I want to walk you through a practical process for deciding which counseling groups to run first based on your school's current data,

your student needs,

and most importantly, your available time.

Because the goal is not to run as many groups as possible.

The goal is to run the right groups for the students who need them right now.

I really do think that one of the easiest traps that we fall into is starting with curriculum.

I mean, maybe we have some that we inherited.

Maybe it's a book we pull off the shelf. Maybe it's we're scrolling through TPT and we find this really cute, adorable curriculum that we think, oh, this is so cute.

I want to do this.

And so we start with this curriculum.

Maybe it's one on friendship or anxiety or grief.

And then you immediately start thinking about which students you can pull into it.

But here's the thing.

The better order is to begin with the student need and then select the intervention.

Your curriculum,

it's the tool.

It's not the whole reason for the group.

And before deciding what to run,

you need to ask what is happening in our school right now?

Which concerns are affecting multiple students?

Where are we seeing patterns?

Which students need more support than they are receiving through tier one instruction?

Because a small group is generally. It's tier two support.

And it's meant for our students who need something more focused and targeted than the instruction and support being provided to everyone.

You have to think of it,

your tiers, as kind of layers.

You start with your tier one, everybody gets it. And for those that need a little bit more, you add on that tier two support. That small group. It's not in lieu of your tier one instruction.

It's.

It's in addition to.

And so we have to layer that on to what we already have.

And so with that, it means that the first question should not be which group do I like teaching?

It really needs to be which students are showing us they need additional support.

When we hear the word data,

we sometimes imagine complicated spreadsheets,

charts and formulas.

But data doesn't have to be complicated.

It really is simply information that helps make a better decision.

So you need to start by looking at information that your school already collects.

You can review those attendance and tardiness.

Because even though I can tell you we're in the first like,

or our second week of school,

three, if you count the first two days,

we already have a pile of attendance concerns coming in in that short amount of time.

So you could review that attendance and tardiness data.

Maybe discipline or behavioral referrals. Who are the kids that are already coming down or showing up?

What are the academic concerns already?

Teacher referrals.

Maybe it's student needs assessment.

Maybe you did a quick little school climate or belonging survey.

Maybe you're doing sabers or some other type of SEL screening information.

Maybe it's seeing who's already been down to the nurse requests that are coming in for individual counseling,

family concerns,

data from your MTSS team,

and even results from your previous counseling groups.

Each of these sources tells you a little something different.

Attendance data. They may reveal a group of students who are beginning to miss school regularly.

Behavior data is going to show you an increase in peer conflict, maybe Even in a particular grade level.

In teacher referrals, they can indicate that several students are struggling with emotional regulation.

And student surveys, they can reveal anxiety or low school belonging.

Maybe that hasn't even resulted in any office referrals.

But that survey is revealing those kids that sometimes are missed.

And that last piece, it's especially important the students with the greatest needs are not always the students creating the most visible concerns.

Quiet students,

high achieving students,

and students who work very hard to appear fine can easily be missed if we rely only on our discipline or teacher referrals.

That's why using more than one source of information matters.

As our district is moving into an MTSS model,

we started real strong with the tier one and we're beginning to add that Tier two.

We are really concerned about the data.

And so we have said that we need two data points. If they need two data points to move into an MTSS for reading or math intervention, they need two data points for the behavioral stuff too.

So that data,

it's super important and having multiple pieces of it even more so.

No single data point should automatically place a student in a group.

Data helps us to notice patterns or ask better questions and determine where you may need to look even more closely.

You also want to look for patterns and not just isolated incidents.

So imagine this. You receive three friendship referrals.

first glance, that really sounds like it's enough students for a friendship group.

But when you start to look more closely, you discover that one student had a single disagreement with a friend.

Another student is experiencing ongoing expulsion,

and the third student, they really struggle to enter, play,

read social cues,

and maintain friendships across different settings.

Those students,

they may not need the same intervention.

One difficult day does not necessarily mean a student needs six weeks of group counseling.

But before you create a group, you really need to look for repeated patterns.

Ask how often is this concern occurring?

How long has it been happening, and is it showing up in more than one setting?

Is it affecting the students learning their attendance, their relationships,

or their ability to participate in school?

What tier one strategies have already been provided?

Have you gone in and done classroom lessons on problem solving?

And if so,

what was the response?

Have teachers noticed a difference?

You can also ask, does the student need a new skill or more opportunities to practice a skill?

Or do they need a different kind of support altogether?

This line of questioning helps you distinguish between a temporary situation and a need that may benefit from real targeted group instruction.

Altogether,

you need to use three filters.

Need fit and feasibility when several possible groups rise to the top.

I like to consider these three things once again, their need,

their fit, and their feasibility.

So let's begin with need.

How significant is the concern?

How many students are affected,

and what might happen if the concern isn't addressed?

Does the concern connect to a school or a district priority?

For example,

your school may have identified chronic absenteeism as a major concern.

And if the data shows a group of students whose absences are connected to anxiety,

low belonging,

or difficult morning transitions,

an attendance focus group may deserve priority.

Next,

consider fit Is small group counseling the right intervention for this concern?

Some students they need individual support,

and some concerns can be addressed effectively through classroom lessons.

Other situations require family collaboration,

maybe administrative action,

community referral,

or more intensive mental health services.

A group really should have a shared purpose.

The students don't need to have the identical stories or have identical stories, but they all need to be working towards compatible goals.

A student who needs basic friendship skills may not be a good match for a group focused on repairing a specific highly charged peer conflict and a student experiencing a recent crisis who seems like they're withdrawn and they don't have very many friends.

They don't necessarily need a friendship group.

They might need some individual counseling and individual stabilization before being ready to participate safely and productively in a group.

The third consideration is feasibility.

Can you realistically run this group well?

Do you have the appropriate curriculum?

Can you find a meeting time that doesn't create a barrier for students?

And do you have enough students with similar needs?

Will teachers and families support participation?

And can you complete the group before major scheduled disruptions, testing, holidays, or the end of a marking period?

Feasibility.

It shouldn't be the only factor in this,

but it does matter.

And a perfectly designed group that students can't attend consistently,

it's just not going to produce the results that you're hoping for.

A lot of I know a lot of counselors run groups during lunch periods,

and trust me, I am one of those counselors too.

But I also know that if I really am trying to hone in on specific skills,

the feasibility for running that group at lunchtime and really wanting to move that needle, it's probably not going to happen during lunch.

I mean, in lunch you're fighting against food and kids wanting to go to recess,

so you have to look at that situation too.

As you're going through all of this,

you really need to create a simple priority list. Now, you don't need an elaborate scoring system to decide which group comes first.

Create a list of possible groups and rate each one using a few simple questions for each potential group, consider how many students appear to need the support,

how urgent the concern,

how strongly is the need supported by data?

Does it align with the school priority?

Is small group counseling, an appropriate intervention,

and can this group be scheduled and implemented successfully?

And then last but not least, do I have a way to measure whether it helped?

I will say one of the exceptions for all of this is if you are brand spanking new, like if you are fresh out of a program or maybe you're in your internship time,

it's probably best to start with a group that you do feel most comfortable with running.

Because being proficient at groups and just trying to figure out how to run it,

those are two very different things.

And you don't want to take on a group that you maybe know nothing about or never really done before, or not sure how to run it for the first time with all those other things going on.

Pick something that's going to be a little bit simpler.

You still want it to move the needle,

but it's okay to say, oh,

you know what, it's still early in the year. I'm going to start with something that I think I'm going to be really successful at first before moving on to some others in a few,

in like a few months.

And that's okay because our groups aren't going to run for the full year. They're going to run for six to eight weeks.

So if it's like I said, that very, very first group and you are brand spanking new,

pick something to ease your way into.

So,

all right,

for those of you that have some experience behind you running groups,

you really look at all those things. Create your list,

create your possible list, and then really rate them.

Now, let's say you're considering four different groups. Friendship skills, anxiety management,

attendance, emotional regulation.

The friendship group probably has several teacher referrals,

but most involve isolated disagreements that might be addressed best through classroom instruction and brief problem solving.

The anxiety group has four students with repeated nurse visits.

There's school avoidance, and there's individual counseling requests.

The attendance group that you're considering has six students.

They all have emerging attendance concerns,

but you still need more information about the reasons for their absence.

And the emotional regulation group has eight referrals,

multiple behavior incidents, and a strong connection to your student improvement plan.

Based on that information,

you see how we broke it down. We really looked at what's behind each of those,

who the kids are,

what's going on.

That's the information that you really have to look at. And when we look at it through that lens.

I'm guessing that you're going to pick the group that I would pick first. And that's the emotional regulation 1.

Because of the 8 referrals, the multiple behavior incidents,

and the connection to the school improvement plan,

the anxiety management that might be a close second,

the four students with the repeated nurse visits, the school avoidance, and the individual counseling requests.

So, my friends, when you're picking your groups, this is how I want you to think about which groups you should run.

And this is really what data based decision making looks like.

It's not simply counting referrals. It's looking at the complete picture and matching the response to the need.

And here's a tip. Do not let the loudest voice make the decision.

Sometimes the group that gets requested most often is often not necessarily the group with the greatest need.

It may simply be the concern that is most visible or disruptive.

A teacher who's managing frequent peer conflict may understandably request a friendship group right away.

And an admin dealing with repeated behavior referrals might ask for an anger management group.

Listen to those concerns.

They are really valuable information.

But do not let one urgent request automatically determine your entire small group cloud.

In fact, you can just say, hey, I'm noticing these concerns too.

But I'm reviewing the referral, the behavior, and the student needs data so I can determine the best intervention and identify which students would benefit the most.

And with that response, it communicates that you're taking the concern seriously while also making a thoughtful, professional decision.

Now, once you choose the type of group,

you still need to decide which students should participate because it's not simply a collection of students with the same referral label. You have to think about personalities, the readiness,

the communication styles,

and the relationships among potential members.

When I was first starting to run groups,

I picked all the heavy hitters and put them all together in one group. I also had, it was out of middle school and I also had about nine kids.

Well, what a disaster that was because first of all, we said, oh, these kids are all fighting. They're not getting along.

They're all from the same class. We're going to run this friendship group. It's going to be great.

Woo.

It was a hot mess express,

to put it plainly. I mean,

we just couldn't get.

It was like two clicks not clicking together for one bigger click.

And it didn't go over very well. Parents were mad.

I was getting upset. The admin was like,

things, you know, aren't changing here.

Kids in the group were like bickering with one another, with one another.

So it wasn't the right mix.

And clearly they were not at a spot spot where they were ready to have a group.

So you really need to think carefully about who's in it,

their readiness,

their communication styles and all of that stuff.

You really need to ask yourself, will the students feel safe participating together?

That was not a thought I had when I put my first group together.

I didn't think about that. I just thought we're going to solve this problem and we're going to fix it.

But the question I should have asked was, is there an existing conflict that could prevent honest discussion?

Because that's what happened. The conflict that the kids had with one another, it was two different groups. It really prevented honest discussion.

One student usually dominated the group.

And that's another thing to consider too.

Will one student dominate the group?

And are there students who may encourage one another's negative behavior?

Because if one person goes down on that spiral bandwagon,

you don't want others jumping in on it too.

So you want to make sure that each student has the ability to participate in the group format,

that students privacy or emotional safety shouldn't be compromised by the group.

And you're not looking for a group of students who are exactly alike.

Some diversity in perspective and skill level can be really helpful.

I know that I always try to have one kid that's kind of like a role model and some of my groups.

But you really need a group where there's enough compatibility that you can create, trust, practice skills and make progress.

You might decide that two students with similar referral concerns belong in different groups or that one of them would benefit more from individual support.

Use your professional judgment.

The data,

it helps identify the need,

but it does not know replacing your students.

So put those two things together, the data along with your professional judgment and before your first session, decide what you want students to know or do differently. By the end of the group,

you really need a clear goal.

I mean, students will improve their friendship skills. That's a great start.

But that's difficult to measure.

A clear goal is. By the end of a six session group,

students will be able to identify and demonstrate three strategies for entering a group,

handling a disagreement and repairing a friendship.

For an emotional regulation group, you might be well students can identify common triggers and independently select at least two appropriate regulation strategies and use them.

And for an attendance group,

students might identify barriers,

increase their school connection,

and hopefully improve their attendance. From the baseline period.

The goal really helps you select activities,

measure progress and Explain the purpose of the group to the teachers, the families, your administrators,

and also and most importantly, your students.

And it helps you avoid turning the group into six interesting activities that don't build towards a shared outcome.

When I build my groups and we're going to have a whole another podcast episode on groups and how to put them together,

I really start with my outcomes. What do I want my kids to achieve?

And then I look at those bigger outcomes and I break it down. Most of my groups are eight weeks long and I, I have the stepping stones for my big end goals.

And so each session is a stepping stone for what I want them to know.

You also need to really collect data before,

during and after your group. And you don't need a real big complicated evaluation system.

You can start with just a simple pre assessment which is connected to your group's goal.

You can ask students to rate their confidence using specific skills.

You can gather baseline data such as attendance referrals or missing assignments,

if that's appropriate.

But during the group, track participation and look for evidence that the students are learning and practicing the skills.

And at the end, repeat the student assessment and compare the results.

So like I said,

at the end of every session, I have a clear goal for that session as well.

And so my evaluation,

I'm really progress monitoring throughout the course of the eight weeks,

I'm just monitoring or progress monitoring on that smaller goal.

Have they met this goal by the end of the session?

But at the very end of the group, you really want to compare the results. So repeat that pre post test and compare your results.

You can also ask teachers and families whether they have noticed changes,

but keep those questions real, brief and specific. I usually like to also ask parents and teachers a month afterwards,

have you seen,

have they maintained those skills?

Have they carried it with them?

It's a month after the group has ended, have you noticed that there's a change?

So you can ask those questions too.

And really, instead of asking things like, is the student better, doing better,

you can ask questions like, has the student used a calming strategy before reacting?

Is the student entering peer activities more successfully?

Has the student demonstrated improved morning attendance?

So those are the questions that you can ask from the teachers and the families.

And then you should look at the student outcome data.

Did behavioral referrals decrease? Did attendance improved?

Did students report a stronger sense of belonging?

Did they demonstrate the targeted ask a student standards?

Because the purpose of collecting data is not to prove that every group was perfect.

It's to learn whether the intervention helped and what you maybe need to adjust next time?

Or even do my kids need more?

Is there one kid that just didn't get it? And maybe I do have to move them to a tier three.

Or maybe this wasn't quite the group. Maybe this other group would,

would also be better.

Now you might be saying, all right, so if I just pick two groups, but I need to really have four,

what about the groups I can't run yet?

Well, choosing one or two groups first means. It does mean that another group will have to wait.

And that can be difficult,

especially when you know that there are students that need that support. And maybe you have people asking for them.

But delaying a group doesn't mean you're ignoring the need while students wait.

Consider what can be provided through Tier one lessons.

Maybe it's even a brief individual check in teacher consultation,

family resources.

Maybe it's some lunch opportunities.

Or maybe there's even another existing school support.

You may also discover that strengthening Tier 1 instruction reduces the number of students who really need a formal group.

For example, if friendship concerns are showing up across an entire grade level,

teaching conflict resolution and communication skills to every classroom may be more effective than immediately placing 20 students into separate friendship groups.

And then after that Tier one instruction, you can identify the students who still need more targeted practice.

And that creates a much clearer path from universal support to small group intervention.

And like I said, we want to layer.

We don't want to substitute. We want to layer our interventions.

And once you have identified your first group, begin mapping the rest of the year.

You might plan to run emotional regulation in the fall,

attendance or school success in the winter,

and then transition or friendship groups in the spring.

And that's fine.

But leave room for the data to change your plan,

because a group that seemed necessary in September may become a little less urgent by January.

A new concern might emerge. Mid year attendance data may reveal a need you didn't see in the fall.

Your group calendar should give you direction without locking you into decisions that no longer fit your students.

And at the end of each group cycle,

pause and review your data before automatically starting the next group on your original list.

Once again,

you're going to ask, what's the greatest current need?

What students required that targeted support?

Have we already tried?

What does the latest data tell us?

And then you're going to make that decision because the goal isn't more groups.

It's not.

And I want to end with this reminder.

Your effectiveness as a school counselor is not measured by how many groups you can squeeze into your schedule.

Running 10 groups doesn't automatically mean your program is stronger than a program running four carefully selected groups.

A strong small group program is intentional.

It identifies students through multiple sources of data.

It matches student to an appropriate intervention.

It establishes clear goals, it monitors progress,

and it uses the results to determine what happens next.

I'm already looking at a ton of posts in the Facebook groups and I am seeing counselors that are completely burned out and they've only been in school for a month.

And I think it's because they're trying to run too much without looking at the data or multiple sets of the data.

They're just responding to every urgent need that they're, that they're handed.

And that urgent need might just be urgent for that day.

That doesn't mean it's a long term problem,

that they need to find a long term solution for it.

They need to dig a little bit deeper.

And it's not always more is better.

I say this a lot.

Sometimes you gotta slow down to speed up.

And the same holds true when we're looking at the groups.

Remember, your effectiveness as a school counselor is not measured by how many groups you can squeeze into your schedule.

So look at your data and really let that determine what you need.

Yes,

look at your students.

Look at the attendance, the behavior, the academic, your referral, your surveys, your screening info.

Listen to your teachers, your families, your administrators, your students.

And then ask yourself which group addresses the most significant need,

which students are most likely to benefit?

And is small group counseling the right intervention?

And then can I clearly explain how I know whether it helped?

You have to run every group at once.

Just start with the group your data tells you your students need. First,

my friends, this I think was a lot. We covered a lot today.

And if you do need groups that can help you move the needle,

check out perks or check out some of the groups in my TPT store. There's a lot there and they've been carefully crafted to really help you gather the data,

make informed decisions,

and then provide an intervention that has some clear,

targeted results.

Well, not just results, but objectives.

And hopefully you can help the kids learn those skills to meet those results.

All right, my friends, I hope that this information was helpful.

Until next time, I hope you have a great week.

Bye for now.

Thanks for listening to today's episode of Counselor Chat. All of the links I talked about can be found in the show notes and at counselingessentials.org forward/podcast.

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